Refining Gem Supply

[FinalLegacy]

Regarding the main topic, I think it would be a little too far on the non-vanilla side if we nerf regular gems. There's also the chances they just raise normal gem prices instead of ref gem prices.

The most obvious solution is reducing ref sources, but I think a bigger problem is that nobody can really use them since there's nothing to gem. It would help to reduce Ref gem drop rates anyway though. If salvaging produces the most then just reduce drop rate from that. I think it would be unfair to people to take it completely away.

If we really must, just bring in broken gems, maybe cracked and chipped as well. If you did that and made them available to FC/DS as in TOP2 though, we would probably wanna remove UGs from FC/DS boss since broken/cracked could revitalize FC and DS by themselves, not to mention the resulting ref sales.

My only concern with them is that, in TOP2 they were meant to be temporary gems until you can afford better gems. It makes for great ref gem markets since people can keep on forging and reforging. In here they would be the best possible gems since most would not be able to afford BD gems and they would also render regular gems nearly useless apart from perhaps lust gems. I would suggest trying out broken gems first if we go this way and seeing its effects. Limited to lv3, it might not be that bad.

Just an extra: I think another reason people don't gem right away is because we simply don't have end game eqs yet. Nobody wants to gem a wyrm or sistine when they can save up for a DOE and get better results than gemming for the same amount of money. I guess that's just a crusader thing though.....

Anyway, just a few thoughts.

 

[Leba]

If we really must, just bring in broken gems, maybe cracked and chipped as well. If you did that and made them available to FC/DS as in TOP2 though, we would probably wanna remove UGs from FC/DS boss since broken/cracked could revitalize FC and DS by themselves, not to mention the resulting ref sales.

I personally like how the only Gems that give "base" stats here are UGs (and well, Spr gems), as that means you have to plan your build and forging out more carefully, so I admit that I'm not a big fan of br/cr/ch gems. I would be more fond of having gems such as Fiery and Furious (arguably Shining/Glowing) buffed than add those gems, and I really think that would solve the problem the same way adding Br/Cr/Ch gems would. Let's not forget how they would suddenly increase in value, whereas they're just left on the floor of every CA chest or Bayside Wreckage that's dropped them as of now.

 

[FinalLegacy]

I personally like how the only Gems that give "base" stats here are UGs (and well, Spr gems), as that means you have to plan your build and forging out more carefully, so I admit that I'm not a big fan of br/cr/ch gems. I would be more fond of having gems such as Fiery and Furious (arguably Shining/Glowing) buffed than add those gems, and I really think that would solve the problem the same way adding Br/Cr/Ch gems would. Let's not forget how they would suddenly increase in value, whereas they're just left on the floor of every CA chest or Bayside Wreckage that's dropped them as of now.

That's true, like I said though, it would be a lot more non-vanilla than adding br/cr/ch gem. That would be my main issue. I would suggest just broken gems though since cracked and chipped might be a little much considering our current state.

Also, depending on how much you buff them, it might turn out fairly similar to locks/bings/sharks/fengs gems, which I'm not sure we want in the game. I know I'd love Bings but I don't know if that's where we want to go with the game yet.

If we don't buff them enough though, we can't really encourage gemming any more than we already are. I don't think making fiery gems +10 damage would make them much more enticing to gem, at least to me, since I do think lusts and shadow as they are are still better than that. Good enough for end game gemming if I can't get eyes at this point actually. Imagine if we buff them. Going to +20 on the other hand goes way closer to BD eyes than I want them to be. I think gems limited to lv3 the way broken gems are would still be more practical. Perhaps, if you want buffed regular gems, just introduce broken locks/bings/sharks/fengs.

I guess my main problem with buffing the gems, apart from it being non-vanilla, would be that they become less temporary and more final build material. Not to mention people already have them installed so it would mostly benefit people who already have them. I don't think they would encourage gemming as much as broken gems would either.

The thought of 5 dodge shadow gems and 10 hit lusts on dual swords bugs me a bit too. I feel like cruses would get the most out of something like that. Broken UGs would at least benefit everyone better, and Bings and Locks would be exclusive to boots and gloves unlike shadows and lusts.

Sorry for sounding a bit random at times, I've just been typing what comes to mind.

 

[Leba]

That's true, like I said though, it would be a lot more non-vanilla than adding br/cr/ch gem. That would be my main issue. I would suggest just broken gems though since cracked and chipped might be a little much considering our current state.

Fair point, but the game being vanilla just for it to be vanilla is kinda pointless. There's already some adjustments made which make it non-vanilla but made the gameplay better.

Also, depending on how much you buff them, it might turn out fairly similar to locks/bings/sharks/fengs gems, which I'm not sure we want in the game. I know I'd love Bings but I don't know if that's where we want to go with the game yet.

I'm not talking to that extent. I don't think Shadow or Lust gems need buffing (Cross Lock/Bing), and adding even a +50 HP Boost to shining would be fine (Half a Shark), or a small +3 def boost to Glowing or something similar (Half a Feng iirc), that wouldn't really hurt but it would make those gems more attractive to forge. I was mostly talking about Fiery and Furious anyway besides the former two. (Since winds, souls and strikes have no alternatives).

If we don't buff them enough though, we can't really encourage gemming any more than we already are. I don't think making fiery gems +10 damage would make them much more enticing to gem, at least to me, since I do think lusts and shadow as they are are still better than that. Good enough for end game gemming if I can't get eyes at this point actually. Imagine if we buff them. Going to +20 on the other hand goes way closer to BD eyes than I want them to be. I think gems limited to lv3 the way broken gems are would still be more practical. Perhaps, if you want buffed regular gems, just introduce broken locks/bings/sharks/fengs.

I understand, that is partially my concern as well with buffing them, the need to buff them just the right amount. +10 attack isn't as bad as you make it out to be. A lv3 Fiery in that case would be equal to lv1 UG on the ~150 Str area, which is actually quite good. It wouldn't become late game material as you couldn't get it above Rage lv2 value, but it could serve as a valuable replacement meanwhile. I'm against adding Shark/Bing etc., but I'm against adding more ways to obtain base stats too.

The thought of 5 dodge shadow gems and 10 hit lusts on dual swords bugs me a bit too. I feel like cruses would get the most out of something like that

Those gems are fine. Shadows are trolly anyway and hardly used, while Lusts feel just the right way.

Sorry for sounding a bit random at times, I've just been typing what comes to mind.

All good, I feel you.

 

[FinalLegacy]

Well as far as Damage gems being buffed, I wouldn't mind that but then we get into the "we're not doing enough for magic types" argument unless we up spirit gems to 2 spr, and maybe not touch lusts.

I don't know about shadow gems being trolly. I love dodge on crusxD

But yeah, all this discussion still makes me ask one question: Would that really help ref prices?

I guess me leaning towards favoring broken gems is from the TOP2 experience where every average char was actually encouraged to gem more for those that couldn't afford UGs and Azz.

Anyway, I've shared my thoughts. Hope I helped give insight anyway.

 

[Leba]

Well as far as Damage gems being buffed, I wouldn't mind that but then we get into the "we're not doing enough for magic types" argument unless we up spirit gems to 2 spr, and maybe not touch lusts.

How good Magics are or aren't isn't really the point here. They don't have any gem to replace their GoS or Spirit Gem, so you can't really encourage to gem anything else for a start. That's where your Broken gem argument comes in, but do remember that this would be a better change for cruz. I mean, +6 agi in boots with little effort (lv3 broken) would be a massive boost. Especially if they can grab a wind too.

But yeah, all this discussion still makes me ask one question: Would that really help ref prices?

It's a long shot, but most people using refs are higher levels who forge "rarer" Gems. If people are given a chance to catch up more easily (i.e. get lv3 basic gems) I'm sure they'd be encouraged to forge more, as it would help in leveling, farming and even PK. More forging from all "layers" of players (not just pro ones who can afford to forge the only "good" gems in the game) would probably increase demand for Refs, which would hopefully increase the price.

Then again, just how high can Ref prices even go? I bet if they ever go for 500-600k+, not to talk 1m+, people would start going to crazy extents to try and get them in order to sell, and by that I don't mean positive things like crowding FC. I mean, people started SQing with Alts when Lust prices went nuts, and I highly doubt Refs would be kept at a high price for too long, as people would find a way to inflate the economy yet again.

 

[Leyna]

Before we start boosting normal gem, please considered the availability of those gem, people who do salvage have tons of
them at their disposal. Regarding cracked/chipped gem should they been implemented and were to be put in FC/DS where
there only 1 guild currently monopolizing the map doesn't really benefit the server.

Refining gem are cheap as to their usability is limited as forging normal gem aren't really worth for non-magic class but UG is to
expensive. Maybe for the new guild island update, we can put refining gem as 1 of the guild level up item/quest.

 

[PanMilan]

If the problem is that half the supply of refs comes from salvaging while the rest are from a variety of mazes(fc/ds/dw/ca) then you could just reduce the drop rate in salvage spots or increase the respawn time.
UG prices have gone down because OSS has become popular and 70% of ug's are coming from their recently where any one has equal chance at getting, again if you see it as a problem you could always reduce the drop rate.

 

[Leyna]

I agree with PanMilan on reducing the drop rate/increasing re-spawn time on salvage as majority of ref supplies comes from it.
OSS have become really popular after 1 guy managed to get 5-7 UG in a week but i prefer for it not to be touch as it gave everyone
an equal chance to get UG.

However UG is currently the most unique gem in the market as BD are currently monopolize. I do see the consequences of having them
a lot in the market though which correspond to their price drop.

Though i personally don't mind buying cheap UG as i make 90% of my gold by selling rum

 

[AntXz]

People who speak about salvaging as majority of the gems influx probably didnt even salvage in this game before. It aint even easy to get gems from it lel considering the amount of work u gotta do. And for getting ugs in oss is alot harder than people think. 0.28% technically 5stacks 1ug. keep in mind , u ll even roll another item from oss with 0.28% before even getting the ug. its not like 0.28% between "something" and "nothing". Its 0.28% out of "so many things"

 

[llilii]

0.28 is not 5 stacks.. more like less than 4 stacks. and it's not 0.28, it's around 1%+, so technically u will get 1 UG from each stack oss...

I also suggested to buff the noob gems like fiery, furious, glowing, spirit rather than introducing new gems (crack/broke/shark), make it worth to forge before forging UGs (which is still expensive, especially soul). for example for crus, i want for them to have some variation for gemming, not just lust+rage in every sword. buffing shadow gem to help some agi SS (do we have some here?) dodge better is also nice, but i'm afraid that It'd make crus dodge too easy with already high natural dodge and triple shadow equips.

 

[Gr33d]

Rarity is what makes an item expensive, UG prices are decreasing because the mazes boss UG drop rate update. I would like to see them around 10-12m, not lower than that, since they are the strongest gems next to the black dragon ones.

About refining gems, there is a way to improve the price and the pk all over the server while doing it. Remove the drop rate from everything but mazes, items with opening reward (Sparkling Wishing Stone, Ancient Pirate Treasure Map...) and story quest.

That change will increase the rarity of them and the traffic in FC and DS. Also SQ wil be a good way to get some money for the new players.

That's a bad idea, people need ways to get items without having to be forced in pvp areas. That will just make them take even longer to catch up to other players and not everyone enjoys pvp as much as others especially when they are undergeared.

 

[Zankza]

On serious note, why isn't NPC gems buffed? Are we waiting for something? Some form of revolution before I can go ahead change them?

The reason why I haven't buffed them is because nobody, not single person has requested so far.

 

[Leba]

On serious note, why isn't NPC gems buffed? Are we waiting for something? Some form of revolution before I can go ahead change them?

The reason why I haven't buffed them is because nobody, not single person has requested so far.

It's been requested once, and with this ref "crisis", it doesn't seem like that awful of an idea.

 

[MZarur]

On serious note, why isn't NPC gems buffed? Are we waiting for something? Some form of revolution before I can go ahead change them?

The reason why I haven't buffed them is because nobody, not single person has requested so far.

it should be dealt super carefully. and i still don't expect a big amount of ref gems to be used with this gems.
i don't think that shining, spirit, shadow, lustrious, glowing or explosive needs boost, since they are already being gemmed. the only gems that nobody wants are fiery and furious, but soon more ss will get good bows and will gem furious or shadow on it, so i rly can't see how a boost on the remaining and noobest gem (fiery) will reduce the amount of ref gems to inflate their prices... maybe shadow giving +3 dodge? maybe furious giving +8atk, maybe fiery giving +7atk... the only gems that can be touched, since the others are gemmed in a good demand and are already good for the kind of server that we are talking about...

 

[llilii]

I already did my suggestion on the other thread. I think buffing noob gem (lv3 noob equivalent to lv1 UG, making it as strong as broken gems without the limitation to lv3 in this case).

If the gems are being used doesnt mean it cant/shouldnt be buffed. Especially for us who cant afford the UG yet.

 

[MZarur]

I already did my suggestion on the other thread. I think buffing noob gem (lv3 noob equivalent to lv1 UG, making it as strong as broken gems without the limitation to lv3 in this case).

If the gems are being used doesnt mean it cant/shouldnt be buffed. Especially for us who cant afford the UG yet.

what i mean when i say that they are being used is that they are already good. would be very good for me to have a buff on explosives and shinings, but i know that it would be a rly big boost for the ss's and also unfair for other classes. we have to look into the gems that are being dropped cuz they are useless. i think that only furious, shadow and fiery for now...

 

[PanMilan]

On serious note, why isn't NPC gems buffed? Are we waiting for something? Some form of revolution before I can go ahead change them?

The reason why I haven't buffed them is because nobody, not single person has requested so far.

just what exactly are you proposing? some stats would be nice.

 

[Leyna]

On serious note, why isn't NPC gems buffed? Are we waiting for something? Some form of revolution before I can go ahead change them?

The reason why I haven't buffed them is because nobody, not single person has requested so far.

People didn't ask because it's a custom item of the server, for example would you change 70 Frame stone stat/pr just because people request it.
Most player also know the existence of cracked/chipped gem which in turn makes the normal gem obsolete.

 

[Leyna]

People who speak about salvaging as majority of the gems influx probably didnt even salvage in this game before. It aint even easy to get gems from it lel considering the amount of work u gotta do. And for getting ugs in oss is alot harder than people think. 0.28% technically 5stacks 1ug. keep in mind , u ll even roll another item from oss with 0.28% before even getting the ug. its not like 0.28% between "something" and "nothing". Its 0.28% out of "so many things"

Though in this PKO i make my gold through rum selling due to my limited playing time. In IGG version of PKO i make my gold through FC/analyzing/cooking/salvaging. Though now i'm a voyager who hates the sea!