[Discussion] Current situation of the server (Updates etc.)

[dd3111995]

Hello, I'd like to discuss the current situation of the server with fellow players and Developers.

Foreword: In short, I would like to point out the current problems...

I was hessitent to respond here at first as I am new to this server, but after seeing many opinions thrown into the ring, I guess I'd like to throw mine in too.
For starters, I think Leba did a okay job defining the problems. And although I don't agree completely with all the solutions, I applaud the willingness to come forward with suggestions and start the conversation many people want to start but didn't know how.

At the rate this "server" is trending, it will die,
and I blame it all solely on management. Everything starts at the top and in this case, the people at the "top" are unmotivated to release compelling features/content to this game and its gameplay. A static game without evolution is a red flag for failure. I do not blame players for trying out PKO and then quitting shortly after. This game has no features to help retain new players, let alone, anything to interest new players. Keep this "vanilla" mindset and this "we want our own players to be motivated without any incentive" crap and this server is gonna fail.
Be real about it. The only times this game ever release new content was in times of desperations from competition.

Ima start by saying I flat out disagree with everything but the first line here. Anecdotally as well as factually there is insurmountable evidence to support the anthesis to your statement regarding new players. It is not the job of admins to ensure that against all odds new players prevail into the higher ranks of gameplay. I don't have any stats on the game, but I'm willing to bet that the server is 90% players who had at some point played the OG TOP or PKO, and the other 10% are random passer bys and friends of old players who are here for nostalgia sake. At the core of the player base here are very passionate players who are here because it reminds them of the good old days, and the stronger those feelings are the more likely the players are to stay. So the problem is not those players that will stay, but rather those that will indeed leave, obviously. So we need to ask ourselves, very critically might I add, why are they leaving?

Does content have to do with it? Kind of, this may be about 40% of the equation, but legacy WOW servers, Vanilla WOW, and many other MMOs show us that there are players who are content with this(Naming WOW because of the behemoth it is), and human psychology shows us that humans actually do to some degree enjoy routine. A little bit of chaos, in this case meaning new or unexpected content, is good, but routine is the bread and butter of life. Should the devs add more content, yes, 100%. Should there be events with at least average rewards, also yes. If these do not occur are they single handedly responsible for the death of the game? No.

I'm new to the server so this may be a birds eye view of some other underlying issues, and I'll be sure to update this if new evidence presents itself, but I find the player base itself to be slightly responsible for player retention rate. In a sense, we do not/cannot blame only God for homelessness as a result of its mere creation. Players on this server are truly some of the most toxic and constricting I've seen across any MMO, daily arguments in world, higher lvs KSing lower lvs to grow their existing army of alt chars, and a lack of motivation for players to assist those new to the game are also key factors. This game has a very good 2FA system, it can tell when players are on the same computer and IP. After testing I've found that the IP is less pertinent than the computer being used to log in. This can be used to the games advantage to promote the leveling and aid of accounts that are not owned by the same individual. We are all human, so I can't blame anyone for this, but the fact is we want some sort of reward in exchange for our service, and if the two options are lv our own noobs to 41 and make ~500k ea and lv a noob and get nothing out of it, we will more likely than not choose the former. The game could defiantly stand to incentivize this. That said, the toxicity and negative attitude from most current players to newcomers is what is pushing them out at the lower levels, and if they never make it to the higher levels then new content won't help retain them anyway. Should we grow a player base that is dependent on others? No, but having played this game less than a month and in that time mentoring over 50 noobs to lv 41 I can tell you that most do not continually message me to ask for plvling, they pm with questions of game knowledge, and I see people in world on a daily basis asking simple questions only to be scoffed at by certain elite with remarks such as "what a dumb question, of course you need a lv 1 gem to add a lv 2 gem" and although that may be intuitive to veterans, the vile remark leads to a decreased willingness to ask again, and eventually they give up because the game is too complex.

I would love new mazes, I would love new events, I would love new players. But a new pair of shoes is squandered in a pool of mud, there are many other things to be addressed other than "dev must make game better", no, we must first make the game better. A basic understanding of economics tells us that for the Devs to create more, they need money or some source of income, to do this they need players. The wheel is in motion but two of the strongest spokes are broken and must be fixed.

That said I have some suggestions for the Devs on how to begin their end of the process, other than the previously mentioned incentives for the leveling of true alternate players, I suggest some design competitions. We all know that there are very talented people playing this game, I would love to see a system in which players could be rewarded for the design of content, in any state. I'm sure there are individuals here with great theories, incentivizing them to come forward with maze suggestions, or map ideas would be stellar. Additionally, I'm sure out of the entire player base there is a coder or two who understand the archaic code that the game is built on, imagine if we offered rewards for fixing current bugs or coding new mazes etc. Rum is an artificial currency that has no value in which it is backed, but to someone working through college with no job that would like to purchase mall items, there may be greater incentive to stay in a game they not only helped build, but could gain from their work in.
There is a stellar system in place for inviting new players. I invited all my brothers and get a chunk of all the rum they buy, along with new accounts so I can chop my days away at the fortune tree (xP) but, there is no incentive from there. Imagine if there were milestone rewards for players once their invitees reached certain levels. I understand this has a lot of room for abuse, but the potential goods do outweigh the negatives if the rewards are significant enough to motivate assisting friends, whom we already have some sort of duty towards, yet insignificant enough to detour the average player from spamming invites to themselves, along with the 2FA system to ensure accounts are not run by the same individual.

PKO is more Social oriented game. The more players there are, the better.

100% agree, so another major key may be to try and market the game a bit as well. YouTube targeted ads on private servers and gameplay vids is a great start, but maybe also some Facebook ads aimed at the 14-20 year old market that frequent MMO pages.

TLDR; Devs, read the red section, anyone else read the blue.

 

[dualswordmaster]

I was hessitent to respond here at first as I am new to this server, but after seeing many opinions thrown into the ring, I guess I'd like to throw mine in too.
For starters, I think Leba did a okay job defining the problems. And although I don't agree completely with all the solutions, I applaud the willingness to come forward with suggestions and start the conversation many people want to start but didn't know how.



Ima start by saying I flat out disagree with everything but the first line here. Anecdotally as well as factually there is insurmountable evidence to support the anthesis to your statement regarding new players. It is not the job of admins to ensure that against all odds new players prevail into the higher ranks of gameplay. I don't have any stats on the game, but I'm willing to bet that the server is 90% players who had at some point played the OG TOP or PKO, and the other 10% are random passer bys and friends of old players who are here for nostalgia sake. At the core of the player base here are very passionate players who are here because it reminds them of the good old days, and the stronger those feelings are the more likely the players are to stay. So the problem is not those players that will stay, but rather those that will indeed leave, obviously. So we need to ask ourselves, very critically might I add, why are they leaving?

Does content have to do with it? Kind of, this may be about 40% of the equation, but legacy WOW servers, Vanilla WOW, and many other MMOs show us that there are players who are content with this(Naming WOW because of the behemoth it is), and human psychology shows us that humans actually do to some degree enjoy routine. A little bit of chaos, in this case meaning new or unexpected content, is good, but routine is the bread and butter of life. Should the devs add more content, yes, 100%. Should there be events with at least average rewards, also yes. If these do not occur are they single handedly responsible for the death of the game? No.

I'm new to the server so this may be a birds eye view of some other underlying issues, and I'll be sure to update this if new evidence presents itself, but I find the player base itself to be slightly responsible for player retention rate. In a sense, we do not/cannot blame only God for homelessness as a result of its mere creation. Players on this server are truly some of the most toxic and constricting I've seen across any MMO, daily arguments in world, higher lvs KSing lower lvs to grow their existing army of alt chars, and a lack of motivation for players to assist those new to the game are also key factors. This game has a very good 2FA system, it can tell when players are on the same computer and IP. After testing I've found that the IP is less pertinent than the computer being used to log in. This can be used to the games advantage to promote the leveling and aid of accounts that are not owned by the same individual. We are all human, so I can't blame anyone for this, but the fact is we want some sort of reward in exchange for our service, and if the two options are lv our own noobs to 41 and make ~500k ea and lv a noob and get nothing out of it, we will more likely than not choose the former. The game could defiantly stand to incentivize this. That said, the toxicity and negative attitude from most current players to newcomers is what is pushing them out at the lower levels, and if they never make it to the higher levels then new content won't help retain them anyway. Should we grow a player base that is dependent on others? No, but having played this game less than a month and in that time mentoring over 50 noobs to lv 41 I can tell you that most do not continually message me to ask for plvling, they pm with questions of game knowledge, and I see people in world on a daily basis asking simple questions only to be scoffed at by certain elite with remarks such as "what a dumb question, of course you need a lv 1 gem to add a lv 2 gem" and although that may be intuitive to veterans, the vile remark leads to a decreased willingness to ask again, and eventually they give up because the game is too complex.

I would love new mazes, I would love new events, I would love new players. But a new pair of shoes is squandered in a pool of mud, there are many other things to be addressed other than "dev must make game better", no, we must first make the game better. A basic understanding of economics tells us that for the Devs to create more, they need money or some source of income, to do this they need players. The wheel is in motion but two of the strongest spokes are broken and must be fixed.

That said I have some suggestions for the Devs on how to begin their end of the process, other than the previously mentioned incentives for the leveling of true alternate players, I suggest some design competitions. We all know that there are very talented people playing this game, I would love to see a system in which players could be rewarded for the design of content, in any state. I'm sure there are individuals here with great theories, incentivizing them to come forward with maze suggestions, or map ideas would be stellar. Additionally, I'm sure out of the entire player base there is a coder or two who understand the archaic code that the game is built on, imagine if we offered rewards for fixing current bugs or coding new mazes etc. Rum is an artificial currency that has no value in which it is backed, but to someone working through college with no job that would like to purchase mall items, there may be greater incentive to stay in a game they not only helped build, but could gain from their work in.
There is a stellar system in place for inviting new players. I invited all my brothers and get a chunk of all the rum they buy, along with new accounts so I can chop my days away at the fortune tree (xP) but, there is no incentive from there. Imagine if there were milestone rewards for players once their invitees reached certain levels. I understand this has a lot of room for abuse, but the potential goods do outweigh the negatives if the rewards are significant enough to motivate assisting friends, whom we already have some sort of duty towards, yet insignificant enough to detour the average player from spamming invites to themselves, along with the 2FA system to ensure accounts are not run by the same individual.





100% agree, so another major key may be to try and market the game a bit as well. YouTube targeted ads on private servers and gameplay vids is a great start, but maybe also some Facebook ads aimed at the 14-20 year old market that frequent MMO pages.

TLDR; Devs, read the red section, anyone else read the blue.

You just dont understand current situation.

 

[Leba]

I was hessitent to respond here at first as I am new to this server, but after seeing many opinions thrown into the ring, I guess I'd like to throw mine in too.
For starters, I think Leba did a okay job defining the problems. And although I don't agree completely with all the solutions, I applaud the willingness to come forward with suggestions and start the conversation many people want to start but didn't know how.



Ima start by saying I flat out disagree with everything but the first line here. Anecdotally as well as factually there is insurmountable evidence to support the anthesis to your statement regarding new players. It is not the job of admins to ensure that against all odds new players prevail into the higher ranks of gameplay. I don't have any stats on the game, but I'm willing to bet that the server is 90% players who had at some point played the OG TOP or PKO, and the other 10% are random passer bys and friends of old players who are here for nostalgia sake. At the core of the player base here are very passionate players who are here because it reminds them of the good old days, and the stronger those feelings are the more likely the players are to stay. So the problem is not those players that will stay, but rather those that will indeed leave, obviously. So we need to ask ourselves, very critically might I add, why are they leaving?

Does content have to do with it? Kind of, this may be about 40% of the equation, but legacy WOW servers, Vanilla WOW, and many other MMOs show us that there are players who are content with this(Naming WOW because of the behemoth it is), and human psychology shows us that humans actually do to some degree enjoy routine. A little bit of chaos, in this case meaning new or unexpected content, is good, but routine is the bread and butter of life. Should the devs add more content, yes, 100%. Should there be events with at least average rewards, also yes. If these do not occur are they single handedly responsible for the death of the game? No.

I'm new to the server so this may be a birds eye view of some other underlying issues, and I'll be sure to update this if new evidence presents itself, but I find the player base itself to be slightly responsible for player retention rate. In a sense, we do not/cannot blame only God for homelessness as a result of its mere creation. Players on this server are truly some of the most toxic and constricting I've seen across any MMO, daily arguments in world, higher lvs KSing lower lvs to grow their existing army of alt chars, and a lack of motivation for players to assist those new to the game are also key factors. This game has a very good 2FA system, it can tell when players are on the same computer and IP. After testing I've found that the IP is less pertinent than the computer being used to log in. This can be used to the games advantage to promote the leveling and aid of accounts that are not owned by the same individual. We are all human, so I can't blame anyone for this, but the fact is we want some sort of reward in exchange for our service, and if the two options are lv our own noobs to 41 and make ~500k ea and lv a noob and get nothing out of it, we will more likely than not choose the former. The game could defiantly stand to incentivize this. That said, the toxicity and negative attitude from most current players to newcomers is what is pushing them out at the lower levels, and if they never make it to the higher levels then new content won't help retain them anyway. Should we grow a player base that is dependent on others? No, but having played this game less than a month and in that time mentoring over 50 noobs to lv 41 I can tell you that most do not continually message me to ask for plvling, they pm with questions of game knowledge, and I see people in world on a daily basis asking simple questions only to be scoffed at by certain elite with remarks such as "what a dumb question, of course you need a lv 1 gem to add a lv 2 gem" and although that may be intuitive to veterans, the vile remark leads to a decreased willingness to ask again, and eventually they give up because the game is too complex.

I would love new mazes, I would love new events, I would love new players. But a new pair of shoes is squandered in a pool of mud, there are many other things to be addressed other than "dev must make game better", no, we must first make the game better. A basic understanding of economics tells us that for the Devs to create more, they need money or some source of income, to do this they need players. The wheel is in motion but two of the strongest spokes are broken and must be fixed.

That said I have some suggestions for the Devs on how to begin their end of the process, other than the previously mentioned incentives for the leveling of true alternate players, I suggest some design competitions. We all know that there are very talented people playing this game, I would love to see a system in which players could be rewarded for the design of content, in any state. I'm sure there are individuals here with great theories, incentivizing them to come forward with maze suggestions, or map ideas would be stellar. Additionally, I'm sure out of the entire player base there is a coder or two who understand the archaic code that the game is built on, imagine if we offered rewards for fixing current bugs or coding new mazes etc. Rum is an artificial currency that has no value in which it is backed, but to someone working through college with no job that would like to purchase mall items, there may be greater incentive to stay in a game they not only helped build, but could gain from their work in.
There is a stellar system in place for inviting new players. I invited all my brothers and get a chunk of all the rum they buy, along with new accounts so I can chop my days away at the fortune tree (xP) but, there is no incentive from there. Imagine if there were milestone rewards for players once their invitees reached certain levels. I understand this has a lot of room for abuse, but the potential goods do outweigh the negatives if the rewards are significant enough to motivate assisting friends, whom we already have some sort of duty towards, yet insignificant enough to detour the average player from spamming invites to themselves, along with the 2FA system to ensure accounts are not run by the same individual.





100% agree, so another major key may be to try and market the game a bit as well. YouTube targeted ads on private servers and gameplay vids is a great start, but maybe also some Facebook ads aimed at the 14-20 year old market that frequent MMO pages.

TLDR; Devs, read the red section, anyone else read the blue.

I agree with some of your points here and will try to give a more detailed reply later (too lazy on phone). I think you have the right mindset but not enough experience to know what exactly is happening or why this approach is taken or why these changed are being asked for.

 

[dd3111995]

You just dont understand current situation.

I agree with some of your points here and will try to give a more detailed reply later (too lazy on phone). I think you have the right mindset but not enough experience to know what exactly is happening or why this approach is taken or why these changed are being asked for.

I admit this is possible as I may not be experienced in this server, I would appreciate if either of you could fill me in on why the onus to change is solely on the devs.

 

[xmarwan]

I admit this is possible as I may not be experienced in this server, I would appreciate if either of you could fill me in on why the onus to change is solely on the devs.

I do agree with what you said, its not only the Devs job to ensure the continuity of the game but also the players, in that matter I would say the players are doing their part mostly, everyone now and then try to help a new joiner somehow, those you mentioned as "Elite" and "Toxic" at the same time, aren't actually High level players or so, but rather random people, as far as I know, my guildies always help others in anyway they can even when they aren't all gemmed and high in level.

We players have done much to make the game survive a lot of issues that threatened the server to close at some point, lack of PK in mazes and monopoly too, some of us do care about the server, and have done much to ensure it survives, ask around how many times Guilds splitted just to keep the PK going, or how many times people had to leave their friends just to join the other side to make it fair play and give them some hope in playing, I know many people that quit because of such things -monopoly- or -lack of Pk-, I would say we all done what we could.

But we reached a point where its not about the players anymore, we all play to progress and set a goal and aim for it, but currently there is nothing more to aim for, nothing new to experience, the routine has been the same since a long time now, Log twice a week for Black Dragon, and once every Saturday for Abba, sometimes CA when it fits the timezone, and basically that's it.

We've been doing the same thing over and over for almost a year now, yeah this is how this server is all about, slow progress and gradually opening up new contents for people to experience, but we reached a point that there are no new contents for a very long time, we lose interest in playing eventually, it is clear in mazes now, lots of people who used to log just don't bother anymore simply because it is the same thing, nothing entertaining -games are supposed to be an entertainment mean for humans-.

It used to be "Monopoly", "Losing all the time" or "No PK" that drives the people away from this server, but now it is only the Lack of new Content.

 

[BamnLynx]

I feel like there need to be content for all levels, whether it be events/mazes/pk/contests/prizes get the community active.
The only active Pk is BD/abba, Ca is a joke with most of the time. Low level mazes as far as I know have little to no pk which is sad, DW is a farm fest will little to no PK.

Buffs to lower level mazes making them a viable option to higher level content could draw more interest from the server with higher level plays making alts to come farm said content; FC/DS

Hosting a Dev sponsored bar event to find out who truly is the best pker/ best Crus,SS,Champ ect.. (I could go further into this but there would need to be rules in place to balance out gems/eq ect) Winners get an NPC and a cool app or some shit idk make it fun

Do a creation contest, I saw some old drawing contest from a couple years ago could be cool to do something similar or different it doesn't matter. The point is to get the server involved a good example was the BD event at spring, great for geared players not so great for the newbies exp is nice but why not give them a chance? giant turkey is attacking abandon mines kill it within X amount of time to be rewarded with X (hold it as the same time a higher level event so higher geared people wont ks or make it in a level restricted portal).

The idea here is to get the server involved apart from bd/abba/ca.
And ofc PATCH NOTES every MMO I have played does this we have a discord we have lovely forums post it let us know what your up to devs, whats to come etc. People want to see this it will create HYPE!

 

[dd3111995]

I do agree with what you said, its not only the Devs job to ensure the continuity of the game but also the players, in that matter I would say the players are doing their part mostly, everyone now and then try to help a new joiner somehow, those you mentioned as "Elite" and "Toxic" at the same time, aren't actually High level players or so, but rather random people, as far as I know, my guildies always help others in anyway they can even when they aren't all gemmed and high in level.

We players have done much to make the game survive a lot of issues that threatened the server to close at some point, lack of PK in mazes and monopoly too, some of us do care about the server, and have done much to ensure it survives, ask around how many times Guilds splitted just to keep the PK going, or how many times people had to leave their friends just to join the other side to make it fair play and give them some hope in playing, I know many people that quit because of such things -monopoly- or -lack of Pk-, I would say we all done what we could.

But we reached a point where its not about the players anymore, we all play to progress and set a goal and aim for it, but currently there is nothing more to aim for, nothing new to experience, the routine has been the same since a long time now, Log twice a week for Black Dragon, and once every Saturday for Abba, sometimes CA when it fits the timezone, and basically that's it.

We've been doing the same thing over and over for almost a year now, yeah this is how this server is all about, slow progress and gradually opening up new contents for people to experience, but we reached a point that there are no new contents for a very long time, we lose interest in playing eventually, it is clear in mazes now, lots of people who used to log just don't bother anymore simply because it is the same thing, nothing entertaining -games are supposed to be an entertainment mean for humans-.

It used to be "Monopoly", "Losing all the time" or "No PK" that drives the people away from this server, but now it is only the Lack of new Content.

Okay, this is the well written response I like to see. That said I do have some contentions here. I do like the idea of the guild splitting to create PK, we did that back in ToP2 on my server. That is commendable, but at the same time the new content may drive away those higher levels, but nothing is being done to attract new players and maintain those players. I can honestly say I know a lot of 'high' levels(relative term, I am 75, they are higher than me) that are very kind. That said I know quite a few that are also quite toxic. As great as those kind ones are, they are the silent majority, and players flooding into this server at the lower levels will never get to see or meet them.

I think the problem here is that we are both defining the problem differently and as a result we have different ideal solutions. Should new content be introduced that appeals to those who are sick and tired of abby, bd, ca, etc? Sure, those are just grindy and there is nothing difficult there, I remember even in top2 towards the end I never went to BD for the gems, I always went for the pk. Let's be honest, if DW bosses dropped death weapons, refs, and UGs there would be PK every day at every DW, I'm not sure if anyone going to BD is going for the 'BD mechanics', but more so because the reward is more deserving of their time. A lot of what attracts people at the higher level is that PK, and a good way to maintain it is to bring in new players that may not be sick and tired of those mazes for now. This is why maintaining new players is so pivotal to the server's growth. That said, the solution to open up new content is not very wholesome. Keeping in mind that a lot of the players here are from ToP2, NEW content just isn't 'new', its 'new old'. The reason most players would flock to these events would be for the drops and rewards. That's why I suggested allowing players to invent something that is truly new, difficult, and unique, so there is more reason to complete it than items. Likewise, there must be reason to continually repeat the event, which is where valuable drops come in. Even if there is a very small % chance that these items will be received, the hype is always maintained by a possibility for valuable rewards. In a snapshot, if I were to kill an Abby boss and it dropped a death weapon(2.5% drop rate) then in that one instance the boss dropped it 100% of the time. Over a longer period it would normalize, but the key here is that there is mystery behind when that instance will occur. This creates artificial hype in the game which is good to encourage players to return.

For example, think of games like Sekiro, completely new content, and people played the heck out of it for a few months but the hype eventually died.
Compare it to a game like League of Legends, which has undergone many changes to remain a behemoth in the MOBA space, ranging from the introduction of punishment for toxic players, to the introduction of an 'infinite' level cap rewarding players for good behavior, and continued play. The reason it has been around so long is in part due to new content, but the people who have been playing since 2009 are few and far between, it has been so successful because it continues to introduce new players on a daily basis. There have been good and bad times, but addressing problems across the entirety of their audience they have remained as one of the top MOBAs. Had balancing only taken place based on what individuals in challenger experienced, players would never be around long enough to make it into the higher ranks.

Now, I pray that the daily 1m winter quest never comes back, but what if we had dailies that gave exp, or bind on account gems/eq(Not crap like those +20 stat rings and +10 necks)? Very low amounts of untradeable 'rum' that can be used on specific untradeable or tradable items(like the credit mall)? What if we in some way required these events be completed in groups of different levels like HEX?

What if we rewarded mentors to incentivize assisting players?

What if we punished toxic players?

All I'm saying is that new content would be swell, but that won't maintain the player base if there is no other driving factors, and that must be addressed first. Additionally, if there is no stream of new players as the individuals at the higher levels drop out, their spots will not be filled by eager new players. I believe as humans we tend to see problems as they effect us, and so our efforts to solve a problem stem from our experience, but I am trying to explain that there is a folly in that methodology. If we only solve the problems at the tippy top we only satisfy those at the tippy top, there is much more than can and should be fixed that would be much easier to fix right now.

I'm not saying your suggestions are bad, because I'd love to see second RB(Although I haven't finished first here yet) but at the same time I'd like to see a solution that could persist through time rather than short bursts of activity at the higher levels.

 

[Leba]

Okay, this is the well written response I like to see. That said I do have some contentions here. I do like the idea of the guild splitting to create PK, we did that back in ToP2 on my server. That is commendable, but at the same time the new content may drive away those higher levels, but nothing is being done to attract new players and maintain those players. I can honestly say I know a lot of 'high' levels(relative term, I am 75, they are higher than me) that are very kind. That said I know quite a few that are also quite toxic. As great as those kind ones are, they are the silent majority, and players flooding into this server at the lower levels will never get to see or meet them.

I think the problem here is that we are both defining the problem differently and as a result we have different ideal solutions. Should new content be introduced that appeals to those who are sick and tired of abby, bd, ca, etc? Sure, those are just grindy and there is nothing difficult there, I remember even in top2 towards the end I never went to BD for the gems, I always went for the pk. Let's be honest, if DW bosses dropped death weapons, refs, and UGs there would be PK every day at every DW, I'm not sure if anyone going to BD is going for the 'BD mechanics', but more so because the reward is more deserving of their time. A lot of what attracts people at the higher level is that PK, and a good way to maintain it is to bring in new players that may not be sick and tired of those mazes for now. This is why maintaining new players is so pivotal to the server's growth. That said, the solution to open up new content is not very wholesome. Keeping in mind that a lot of the players here are from ToP2, NEW content just isn't 'new', its 'new old'. The reason most players would flock to these events would be for the drops and rewards. That's why I suggested allowing players to invent something that is truly new, difficult, and unique, so there is more reason to complete it than items. Likewise, there must be reason to continually repeat the event, which is where valuable drops come in. Even if there is a very small % chance that these items will be received, the hype is always maintained by a possibility for valuable rewards. In a snapshot, if I were to kill an Abby boss and it dropped a death weapon(2.5% drop rate) then in that one instance the boss dropped it 100% of the time. Over a longer period it would normalize, but the key here is that there is mystery behind when that instance will occur. This creates artificial hype in the game which is good to encourage players to return.

For example, think of games like Sekiro, completely new content, and people played the heck out of it for a few months but the hype eventually died.
Compare it to a game like League of Legends, which has undergone many changes to remain a behemoth in the MOBA space, ranging from the introduction of punishment for toxic players, to the introduction of an 'infinite' level cap rewarding players for good behavior, and continued play. The reason it has been around so long is in part due to new content, but the people who have been playing since 2009 are few and far between, it has been so successful because it continues to introduce new players on a daily basis. There have been good and bad times, but addressing problems across the entirety of their audience they have remained as one of the top MOBAs. Had balancing only taken place based on what individuals in challenger experienced, players would never be around long enough to make it into the higher ranks.

Now, I pray that the daily 1m winter quest never comes back, but what if we had dailies that gave exp, or bind on account gems/eq(Not crap like those +20 stat rings and +10 necks)? Very low amounts of untradeable 'rum' that can be used on specific untradeable or tradable items(like the credit mall)? What if we in some way required these events be completed in groups of different levels like HEX?

What if we rewarded mentors to incentivize assisting players?

What if we punished toxic players?

All I'm saying is that new content would be swell, but that won't maintain the player base if there is no other driving factors, and that must be addressed first. Additionally, if there is no stream of new players as the individuals at the higher levels drop out, their spots will not be filled by eager new players. I believe as humans we tend to see problems as they effect us, and so our efforts to solve a problem stem from our experience, but I am trying to explain that there is a folly in that methodology. If we only solve the problems at the tippy top we only satisfy those at the tippy top, there is much more than can and should be fixed that would be much easier to fix right now.

I'm not saying your suggestions are bad, because I'd love to see second RB(Although I haven't finished first here yet) but at the same time I'd like to see a solution that could persist through time rather than short bursts of activity at the higher levels.

I do agree with most of what you said here. The long-term idea should be to have a healthy flow of new players who want to give the game a try and stick around. But I would say the priority now should be to retain the old players who are bored due to limited content. Yes, with just the high level guilds around and content only being focused at them - the game would die. You can’t, however, ignore the fact that they are a big reason the game is still alive. If these people quit or give up, there would really be no reason for any new player to stick around (as the high lvl scene would be “dead”). Moreover, they are the “safest bet” - there is no guarantee new players would change their mind about the game even if lots of updates which cater to them were added - while old players would definitely stick around because they spent a lot of money, time and feelings/passion on this game.
The solutions some of us gave out in this thread is something you might have misinterpreted though. My intentions at least did not imply focusing the server’s resources solely to “revive” the high lvl scene and to keep people going. At the end of the day, I’d most like content we would all enjoy, especially newer players. But right now, I believe high level players should be happy in order to keep the “end goals” for newbies alive (as I said, doubt anyone would start the game if there was no pk or activity higher up on the food chain). Moreover, these updates are not something that’s difficult to implement. Most people would be happy with more pk in some mazes, more things to reach out for and an easier time leveling at the highest levels. None of which takes a lot of effort, as it could mostly be done by changing some drop tables, maze opening times or implementing some quest(s) which already exist, quite trivial.
From there on, we can build on more complex content which could cater to new players, though hopefully, everyone.

 

[4tune15]

bump!

 

[potatoboy]

I am completely new to this server, and I have to say that reading through this post has —in itself— been something that has increased the "motivation to stick around." It's very relieving to see a staff team that actively participates in the community and takes the time to hear & respond to them. This being said, listening and responding is only half of the battle, and what you do with your criticism is crucial. From the outside looking in, you're already half-way there.

While I agree with you that there are always improvements to be made, as someone who is brand-new to this server, I have to say that I think you are overestimating your QoL issues. Coming from elsewhere, I can say that this has been the least buggy/laggy experience that I've had to date, which is something to be greatly admired considering the servers that I am comparing PKO to have had considerably much less traffic. However, this statement should be taken with a grain of salt because I have yet to truly experience the server in its entirety.

There are some things that struck me as odd right from the start, but overall, from a new player to the community and staff... I have to admit that I have really enjoyed my first week here. It's not all so bad — but don't forget to listen to your veteran players. They can read you like a book. Cheers.

 

[Johluk]

I am completely new to this server, and I have to say that reading through this post has —in itself— been something that has increased the "motivation to stick around."

Wat, how? Are we reading two different posts?