[Discussion] Current situation of the server (Updates etc.)

[Leba]

Hello, I'd like to discuss the current situation of the server with fellow players and Developers.

Foreword: In short, I would like to point out the current problems which are present in the game from the community's perspective, suggest certain fixes - and most importantly - try to get as many opinions as possible, to try and gather the community's thoughts in one thread. It is important to note that the server is not in a bad condition, however I strongly believe that it can be made better; and I believe that with the passion for this game that members of our community (both players and developers) have; we can all shape this server's future to be brighter.

The problems:
In this section, I will try to point out the two most "glaring" issues which players (myself included) generally consider to be present within the server.

• Lack of updates

I would like to preface this point by stating that this is in fact a vanilla server, and frequent/plentiful updates are not something anyone should expect here. Many people are happy with the Staff keeping the server up and running, focusing on fixing bugs and working on QoL (quality of life) changes; or back-end improvements in the server's infrastructure. This has been the design philosophy of the server since before it launched, and it is one of the things which make this server stand out in terms of quality. Regardless, as time goes by, certain updates should be made to the game for a number of reasons.
Either updates which expand the game's content, usually bringing excitement to the largest number of players; updates to keep the game going at higher levels; or updates which will target new players and improve their experience.

• Lack of players' motivation to stick around

A trend we see in this server is that there are many new players who come and give the game a try - some decide the game's not for them early on, while some keep going - yet a number of them always ends up with a feeling of "nothing to do" at higher levels. While it's near impossible to run out of things to do (you can always max your char or level up to the cap), many people end up feeling like the grind is not worth the available content later on.
My take on this is that there are not as many active mazes in the server as before. DW is in a pretty poor state (and it used to be an incredibly active, frequent maze for both new and old players); CA is usually very timezone-reliant - which leaves us with BD and Abba. Definitely mazes which make every player realize the grind is worth it - but for some those mazes are too "Hardcore" (everyone pots more than normally, there's more people than normally), and the rewards usually do not concern them.

Possible fixes:
In this section, I will try to suggest certain solutions or fixes to the two problems I've described above.

• Regarding lack of updates

I believe we definitely need more updates. It seems like most of what's being done right now is usually behind the scenes; or back-end work. While this kind of work is important and definitely underappreciated, it is not always the right answer from my point of view. Yes, many of the custom features this server has are thanks to thousands of hours of work on these "invisible" changes; and many of the custom features people desire are reliant on them, there is no argument against this.
However, from time to time, it would do the server good to add new content or update existing content with something we players can see and feel. Surely not every piece of content relies on all the aforementioned changes. Much of the requested content either exists in the game but has not been added (for example Rebirth 2), or is a very simple upgrade to the content we already have (for example Mirages, Mirages (v2), Mirages (v3) Death cap, fixing Demonic World, fixing Demonic World (v2)).
To put it short, there are lots of ideas from the community in the UserVoice section, which I feel like are being neglected. The staff is made of professionals who know what they are doing, so content/updates will come for sure (which is better considering that it's custom) - but that doesn't mean all these useful changes which shouldn't be too hard to implement should be overlooked as they are now.

Additionally, I think that there should be no updates which change some of the game's mechanics which people are used to, okay with and which don't ruin the server's balance or integrity. It seems like there were some ideas about changing certain mechanics mentioned by the Devs before, but in my opinion it will only cause dissatisfaction from some players, and a neutral reaction from others. Changing this kind of stuff just for the sake of changing it won't lead to anything good. Rather let the game work how it's supposed to work or how people expect it to work and prioritize updates which will change the game for the better; instead of pouring resources and time into "silly" changes like these.

• Regarding lack of players' motivation to stick around

While this problem is heavily related to the previous one, I would like to narrow down what kind of updates I believe would keep players going.

Reducing the penalty for leveling at lv70-80: //no comment, as it is confirmed to be removed as the first player hits lv90, which should be soon™
Making DW more worthwhile: A very important maze for new and old players alike. I would list making DW more worthwhile as one of the most important updates. (Hint: other than an actual update to the maze, Rebirth 2 would have an effect on this....)
[Maybe?] Changing CA times to better suit the server's demographic: This is a questionable one, but perhaps the CA times should be changed based on activity in each timezone. Not saying to outright remove certain timezones, as for some players those are the only options - but maybe making the active CAs more frequent or shifting the times around a few hours of each CA to make them match peak times more would help increase activity.
Better PvE content: PvE is pretty miserable in vanilla. Leveling at some point becomes difficult, expensive and boring (can be fixed with a better Mirage system). Many of the bosses (DW, BD, skeletar/naval) die within 5 minutes without any real effort, while Abba bosses are just a 1-2 hour grind without much thought put into them. I believe a challenging PvE activity would be a good addition (in the game - Hardin with modified drops; custom - instances similar to Tribulation of faith)

These are all my thoughts for now. Hopefully this thread will get some friction and we can see what we as a community agree on - and make this server better together.

 

[dualswordmaster]

I play non stop 1 year here so I have some kind of experience and all what leba try to say here its true. every single letter. @Developer

 

[xmarwan]

I fully agree with what Leba said here, I will drop my speech later, but Leba already mentioned everything about the current situation and what we players see. I suppose everyone in the server feel the same way or at least the majority.

 

[Tyrion.L]

Full agreed :v

 

[4tune15]

Leba, i love you... What you mentioned above I believe is what the majority thinks. I hope developers have understood the ancestor of this community that is passionate about this game for most of our lives.

 

[NyraHKf]

Well said

 

[Check]

immoral but true

 

[JonasLeal]

Maybe also an inclusion of credits, where you would exchange reputation for it, this is something that could draw attention too! I agree with the questions raised by Leba!

 

[Danel08]

Very true, if you don't add anything new people will get bored. Events are rare and things are always the same. I truly love this game i hope this gets worked out.

 

[Kassie]

Exellent Leba so true im stuck on lv 75 and feel not to play anymore , your changes might change my mind.....

 

[dualswordmaster]

once again... my total exp in this game about 8 years and im ok to play same mazes again and again (lol cmon we have games like Dota 2 where u always do same 123123 times) but at pko gap between hi lvl mazes so big and there nothing to do after some borders reached. DW was that small kind of time killer in game. But for now dw dead af.. revive DW than open mirages = ppl have shit to do.

 

[BamnLynx]

I agree with Leba, These are problems that need to be addressed.
I'm still fairly new to the server but a big issue I see is new/older players coming back from the top1&2 to try the pko server out because of nostalgia
they either get leveled to 40-41 and quit or walk around bothering players without any real direction.
I have noticed that a lot of these players skill/stat builds are strange and miss guided and while there are some lovely guides in the forums they aren't pinned and some are out of date, maybe making these guides a little easier to find or creating an in-game link to some of these guides would greatly benefit new/old players.

And ofc then there is leveling events/credits/hexa:
- Making hexa a weekly event (as in top1) but limiting it to characters bellow 41 (maybe without candies). this would also create a market for hexa items another way for newbies to make a little extra cash. There could also be a hexa event for bellow level 70 just less frequently(with candies)

- Credits could be a major problem and also a solution, it would encourage higher levels to level newbies for free but then why level newbies who might go offline when you can just make alts and farm at your leisure.

- Leveling events, such as the Hocus Pocus Premonition are great and thank you to the dev team for putting it together but also its targeted towards the 'end game' portion of the community. I'm not saying that it wont benefit all players its just why would anyone waste their own x2 exp to help new players.
Making a event that could benefit both newer & existing players through a credit event for example, rep gained during the event can be traded for credit
and credits could be traded for amps/rats/common apps. The time limit on farming credits would also stop the prices of items crashing to hard.

Anyway the way I see it is if good % of the newer player quit then server growth is limited, there should be some focus on trying to keep these players around as well as benefiting existing players.

 

[Developer]

Lack of updates

Actually, Small updates and Fixes are regularly made, even without the need for servers to get restarted.
More Major changes are usually stacked together and deployed upon servers restart.

Staff keeping the server up and running, focusing on fixing bugs and working on QoL (quality of life) changes; or back-end improvements in the server's infrastructure.

That is what makes PKO stand out. Usual server live time is around 3 months without the need for a reboot, and it is increasing.
Even more. We commit 1-2month of hard changes, and then give 1 more month to polish all of them. Almost all, if not all, player suggestions take around a week or two and are added last to release.

Additionally, I think that there should be no updates which change some of the game's mechanics which people are used to

Example of such update that is still no deployed is Latency fix.
It consists of serval parts, but overall impacts all the players who use `Skill Tweak`.
The idea is pretty simple. Each skill use is divided into two parts `Intend` and `Cast`. `Intend` is processed by Game Servers upon animation start, and `Cast` happens when skill animation ends. The Time between `Intend` and `Cast` is determined by the client itself, that is why only `Cast` part was ever processed.
Changes have been made to the Game Servers that result in time between `Intend` and `Cast` portions of skill, so the `Result` of skill used can be received earlier then the `Cast` portion is received. Even more, only `Intend` part is processed and `Result` arrives on `Cast`-`Intend`-latency time, meaning that all players have more or less equal chances despite being far far away.
BUT. This will also would mean that `Skill Tweak` will not be there anymore. So the change is put on hold.

[Maybe?] Changing CA times to better suit the server's demographic:

I would Really like to do that. But by our statistics, the time matches active player time zones.
Maybe it can be changed for players to match the best time suitable for them.

custom - instances similar to Tribulation of faith

Maybe. Maybe. But at the time of writing this reply. Each additional Map requires too many resources and increases latency. So before we do some drastic changes there, we won't put new maps into the table.

I have noticed that a lot of these players skill/stat builds are strange and miss guided and while there are some lovely guides in the forums they aren't pinned and some are out of date, maybe making these guides a little easier to find or creating an in-game link to some of these guides would greatly benefit new/old players.

We always welcome players who are able to write proper guidelines for other players. Even more, we have a `volunteer` corner from where each such guide is promoted into official one under `Knowledge Center` -> `Guides`

- Credits could be a major problem and also a solution, it would encourage higher levels to level newbies for free but then why level newbies who might go offline when you can just make alts and farm at your leisure.

Maybe We could do some changes here, so absent disciples over 1 week can be kicked out without Credits penalty.

why would anyone waste their own x2 exp to help new players.

PKO is more Social oriented game. The more players there are, the better.

Anyway the way I see it is if good % of the newer player quit then server growth is limited, there should be some focus on trying to keep these players around as well as benefiting existing players.

We do have some ideas lying around on the table. But because there is not so much manpower to handle both infrastructure and scripting, something gets more priority.

 

[dualswordmaster]

Actually, Small updates and Fixes are regularly made, even without the need for servers to get restarted.
More Major changes are usually stacked together and deployed upon servers restart.


That is what makes PKO stand out. Usual server live time is around 3 months without the need for a reboot, and it is increasing.
Even more. We commit 1-2month of hard changes, and then give 1 more month to polish all of them. Almost all, if not all, player suggestions take around a week or two and are added last to release.


Example of such update that is still no deployed is Latency fix.
It consists of serval parts, but overall impacts all the players who use `Skill Tweak`.
The idea is pretty simple. Each skill use is divided into two parts `Intend` and `Cast`. `Intend` is processed by Game Servers upon animation start, and `Cast` happens when skill animation ends. The Time between `Intend` and `Cast` is determined by the client itself, that is why only `Cast` part was ever processed.
Changes have been made to the Game Servers that result in time between `Intend` and `Cast` portions of skill, so the `Result` of skill used can be received earlier then the `Cast` portion is received. Even more, only `Intend` part is processed and `Result` arrives on `Cast`-`Intend`-latency time, meaning that all players have more or less equal chances despite being far far away.
BUT. This will also would mean that `Skill Tweak` will not be there anymore. So the change is put on hold.


I would Really like to do that. But by our statistics, the time matches active player time zones.
Maybe it can be changed for players to match the best time suitable for them.


Maybe. Maybe. But at the time of writing this reply. Each additional Map requires too many resources and increases latency. So before we do some drastic changes there, we won't put new maps into the table.


We always welcome players who are able to write proper guidelines for other players. Even more, we have a `volunteer` corner from where each such guide is promoted into official one under `Knowledge Center` -> `Guides`


Maybe We could do some changes here, so absent disciples over 1 week can be kicked out without Credits penalty.


PKO is more Social oriented game. The more players there are, the better.


We do have some ideas lying around on the table. But because there is not so much manpower to handle both infrastructure and scripting, something gets more priority.

It seems to me that they do not hear our message... @Leba @xmarwan

 

[xmarwan]

Let me try to explain it in a different way.

We really appreciate the updates made by the Developers to make the game so stable and nearly never experience unnecessary server Restarts, PKO is way better than any game out there regarding this issue and we know how much effort the devs put into pko to make it like that.

But our concern here is the Lack of Updates that We players can Feel and See as leba said, meaning the lack of new content or content already available but not activated, there are tons of them, great ones in UserVoice, for example Death Cap introduction to the game, More of Mirages around the clock, Rebirth 2 and foxes for DW, some would say Winter but not everyone likes the idea of seeing winter yet.

There are many stuff to be added and contents to be explored, what players ask for is something different than the casual experience we have at this time since the introduction of Abba5-17, new stuff to do something to aim for something to feel and experience, not just being able to log the game without getting disconnected for 2 weeks.

There should be a balance between back-end updates and user-client updates.

 

[Johluk]

Add patch notes pls, as you said you deploy changes while the server is running, so to the player it seems like nothing happens.

 

[xmarwan]

One more thing to add..

Other than updates, we barely have any in-game events, I’m sure there r many ideas around to make the game fun for people, if there’s lack of updates at least events would cover that up and make stuff more fun..

 

[Leba]

@Developer
It seems like you completely missed the point of the thread with your reply. Let me try to elaborate further.
The main problem players have is the lack of updates which are "visible" to them. Yes, you can argue that back-end or infrastructure stuff is something players can feel, but sadly when someone asks what content is available/active in this server which would make them keep playing; "amazing back-end and infrastructure" is not the answer most people want.
It is incredibly important and many people have the patience to wait for such updates to be finished, however many don't as well and they end up not sticking around. This is why, as @xmarwan said, we need a proper balance between updates which involve stability, back-end, infrastructure and so on - and updates which make the server feel like it's moving forward in terms of gameplay as well.

Additionally, I feel like some suggestions should be taken more literally. The latency fix is a good example of this. It's been asked to fix it by simply removing it and letting be as it is since it's not something that's a big deal, and not something anyone asked for. Yet, resources and time are still being poured into making it according to what the Dev team wants, instead of players - when this time could be used to add some other, more crucial, ideas.

Moreover, many changes in UserVoice which I see are usually met with agreement or approval - but Devs have a tendency to complicate them and deviate from the original idea, only to implement them in their own way. Which is usually not possible because of either gameplay constraints (for example adding Death Cap was rejected because the Devs decided it would be better suited for it to go to a boss which is not in the game yet) or infrastructure constraints (for example updates people suggest like Pucca, Guild bank, custom maps not being implemented yet, as the back-end for them is not yet appropriate).
In the second situation, it's understandable and people will have patience for it. But the first situation? I'd say unless it's a change which does not go in line with the server style AT ALL should it be modified by the Devs with proper arguments. But many changes people have agreed on even have multiple variants of the idea - just to make sure it's in accordance with what the server needs; yet they are still assessed by the Devs too much, or made complicated to the point it can't be added yet, which leaves us in the same spot.

Lastly, as @Johluk said, there should be more of those patch notes. What happened to Tidbits? There have been changes in the game which were not recorded anywhere. Weightless potions in mall? Chaos Voucher exchange? Possession bug fix? Just a few examples of recent changes which were not recorded at all and people had to find out about them by themselves. It's not a lot of work to write a small thread when these fixes or "updates" are added, but they help players out a fair bit.

 

[cocopuff]

I did not bother to read the suggestions and refutes from managements I am just here because a dog cried to me about this game, and since I like puppies, I figured I would at least add my opinion onto here.
At the rate this "server" is trending, it will die, and I blame it all solely on management. Everything starts at the top and in this case, the people at the "top" are unmotivated to release compelling features/content to this game and its gameplay. A static game without evolution is a red flag for failure. I do not blame players for trying out PKO and then quitting shortly after. This game has no features to help retain new players, let alone, anything to interest new players. Keep this "vanilla" mindset and this "we want our own players to be motivated without any incentive" crap and this server is gonna fail.
Be real about it. The only times this game ever release new content was in times of desperations from competition.

 

[Leba]

I did not bother to read the suggestions and refutes from managements I am just here because a dog cried to me about this game, and since I like puppies, I figured I would at least add my opinion onto here.
At the rate this "server" is trending, it will die, and I blame it all solely on management. Everything starts at the top and in this case, the people at the "top" are unmotivated to release compelling features/content to this game and its gameplay. A static game without evolution is a red flag for failure. I do not blame players for trying out PKO and then quitting shortly after. This game has no features to help retain new players, let alone, anything to interest new players. Keep this "vanilla" mindset and this "we want our own players to be motivated without any incentive" crap and this server is gonna fail.
Be real about it. The only times this game ever release new content was in times of desperations from competition.

I agree with pretty much every point you've made here, especially the first part (hue).
Though I feel like the approach here should not be "doomsaying" or complaining about the issues the server has, rather see what we can agree on and get the Staff to take the server in that direction. Simply showcasing the problems may not always be helpful, because the direction that's taken and therefore the solutions to the problem(s) are various, and we should guide the Staff to choose the best ones.