You can't say that because we are talking about PKO if this was some other MMO game i will agreed with that, the only solution for what are you saying is that you can't open another client with the same ip or something like that
BOT4LYF
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You can't say that because we are talking about PKO if this was some other MMO game i will agreed with that, the only solution for what are you saying is that you can't open another client with the same ip or something like that
If the second owner is doing something for his shop, then he should. If we apply this absolutely horrible metaphor to AFK farming in top, you're basicly just jerking off at home, gaining something without helping your shop. Also, owner is a bad position to use in this metaphor, try employee. If he's got a day off, he won't earn any money by not being in said shop.
Let's say i'm the second owner and my workers are my alts, if 1 of my alts got dc of course i will lose something.
Now let's say i'm the first owner, since i'm a human and i want to farm a lot, i just can stay with 1 character because i can't "afking"
Now apply what i say in PKO, what makes me more money? how many can i keep and sell?
You can not say that I 'm not thinking for the well of the server, because i'm applying the game things in an economic situation. What Zankza needs to do is how to make it profit for the people the way of a game function can be used to the game, so what's the point of having a Vanilla server if you're extracting things from the original game, it makes the server another exaggeration from a sh1tty private server because you're extracting something that it was originally a part of the game.
Edd1993
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First of all, top 1 never allowed auto magma farming, the GMs were just inactive there, but my SS alts were getting jailed whenever someone bothered to report me via live support. It worked but it was against the rulles, ofc no1 was giving a shit about the rules in top, anyway, we don't want the same things happening here. I just think it would be better for the overall server if afk farming would be disabled and as you can see most of the people are on my side. Zankza should listen to the majority.
Vanilla just for the sake of being vanilla is pointless. The point of vanilla is that it provides a classic and hardcore environment for everyone. Getting everything by AFKing removes all of that.
Now, here's a very simple concept with why the game would be kept classic, hardcore and old school if botting was removed.
- Did people bot in official? A little bit, but PC and knowledge restrictions made it somewhat rare.
- Would people bot here? Hell yeah they would.
- Would removing botting prevent botting? The question itself is rhetorical and absolutely pointless, of course it would.
- Would no bots once again result in an environment closer to the official? Yes it would.
You're saying the solution, GM's everywhere or a very good report feedback, now is it really ok to follow every rules so strictly?
And haven't you heard the phrase The majority don't always have the reason?
I agree with you and a good solution is what Edd1993 said
Since you already like real life metaphors so much, let's make one for this statement of yours, shall we? Let's use driving and road rules as an example. Why would you strictly follow the rules, right? Not like you could have tens of thousands of car accidents each and every year, because rules weren't followed strictly.
In this case, they do.
Just remove any way of people being able to bot. Done.
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For those who keep asking for my "answer":
There are solutions already, even better solutions created by players, but applying solutions without letting problem arise first is just looking for more problems.
Botting is very relative term, they are not entirely so bad, we already have meteorite and fortune tree which will allow you to chop/mine 24/7 which is "afk-bonus" as some players felt you shouldn't be able, but we do have it. Why should those magma, auto-attack, conch be any different? The answer would be the benefit/cost ratio, what does it benefit to whole server and how does it cost the server as whole as well? Seeing how this is hardcore, I feel like those things are only last few things for MOST of players able to rely on.
That being said I could be very wrong, which is why I am not taking any concrete actions but will vouch that I am here to make quick responses, including preparing various solutions in ahead of time so should one become perfect patch, it would be not very long to apply then. I'm just waiting to see more that's all. I won't ban anybody right away, I won't make drastic changes without opening a topic, gathering people's constructive comments first.
There are solutions already, even better solutions created by players, but applying solutions without letting problem arise first is just looking for more problems.
Botting is very relative term, they are not entirely so bad, we already have meteorite and fortune tree which will allow you to chop/mine 24/7 which is "afk-bonus" as some players felt you shouldn't be able, but we do have it. Why should those magma, auto-attack, conch be any different? The answer would be the benefit/cost ratio, what does it benefit to whole server and how does it cost the server as whole as well? Seeing how this is hardcore, I feel like those things are only last few things for MOST of players able to rely on.
That being said I could be very wrong, which is why I am not taking any concrete actions but will vouch that I am here to make quick responses, including preparing various solutions in ahead of time so should one become perfect patch, it would be not very long to apply then. I'm just waiting to see more that's all. I won't ban anybody right away, I won't make drastic changes without opening a topic, gathering people's constructive comments first.
Shinon12345
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Ok, so, we do have Fortune Trees and we do have meteorite. I believe this is enough AFK bonus.
It creates a fair way for everybody to gain something while being AFK, but not too much and the things we get are under the control of the GM since they can decide the items and drop rate from the tree.
Anything other than those two examples I believe are unhealthy in the long run for the server as people will find new ways of exploiting auto skills or any other method of obtaining an, as I would call it, unfair advantage towards those who might not be able to do the same thing or just don't want to do it becuase they feel it is not the right thing to do.
In conclusion:
fortune tree/meteorite are ok
auto skill - be it 3rd party or ingame mechanic - is not ok
It creates a fair way for everybody to gain something while being AFK, but not too much and the things we get are under the control of the GM since they can decide the items and drop rate from the tree.
Anything other than those two examples I believe are unhealthy in the long run for the server as people will find new ways of exploiting auto skills or any other method of obtaining an, as I would call it, unfair advantage towards those who might not be able to do the same thing or just don't want to do it becuase they feel it is not the right thing to do.
In conclusion:
fortune tree/meteorite are ok
auto skill - be it 3rd party or ingame mechanic - is not ok
Radagast
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I really don't like that you don't understand that there IS a problem. There is no need to wait and see if someone will bot. I will, if it will be allowed, aswell anyone else who will be able to open enough clients will. Botting was never allowed in ToP, GM's were just to lazy to really take care of it. Whenever somebody actually DID report botter, they took care of it and jailed the character right away.
Second thing which changes things so much in this server compared to ToP is - Noone botted at ToP right away at server opening. They just didn't knew that it's worth it. And as people stated before, PC's just simply couldn't run more than 2,3 clients for MOST players. Now like 90% of players can run 10+ clients easily. Botting was ''fine'' and didn't entirely ruin the game, because there was so much in-game gold and economics were so stable at moment when someone started botting, that those ''free'' 700k a day wouldn't change anything in terms of server economy. Now it would simply create 3-4 players who would start botting first literally unreachable for players who wouldn't. I'm not saying all this because I'm afraid someone would gain advantage against ME.. as I stated above, I would bot HARD if it was allowed lol. I just understand it would ruin server right away. Seriously, only wipe could save us if botting will be prohibited only after like 2 days (I guess atleast some time has to pass for you to realise problem has ''arised''). It will be there from the start....
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You make valid points, but it's not matter of will someone bot, but matter, will botting hurt server? That's what I'm considering.
Edd1993
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It will for sure. In a server like this, in the first few months, getting money in game is gonna be a pain, botting gets you up to 1mil per day w/o counting the NSS per each account. Now multiply this with 10 accs and equals the same amount of money you get from killing BD, per day, just by afk-ing. Everyone is going to create alts. Not only all the good lvling spots where new players could lvl will be taken down by bots, also the server will be laggier, and basically the economy will be inflated, with gold being so easy to get for the people who run many accs, they will just buy everything at high price, and this is what happens next: all players that can't open many accs and bot will feel discouraged because they won't be able to buy anything in game since they can't farm so much gold, new players will insta quit when they wanna lvl and see bots everywhere, it will reduce the active gameplay drasticly, since farming by your own won't be worthy anymore when you can just go afk and let the bot do the job...etc etc.
As stated by Radagast, back in official people had bad pcs and low game knowledge, there were only few guys in each server that were running bots during that time and also the amount of players, the economy, etc were making botting not a real issue, as of now, you will have an SS in every good spot by the first 12 hrs of the server.
Edd1993
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It doesn't really matter that much how you do it, either you edit the drops, either you disable auto pick up function or anything else, as long as you make the botting useless, it's good.
We have meteorite and fortune tree for afk-ers, maybe increase a bit the drops of those, so the people that can't play a lot and wanna farm something while afk won't feel too discouraged. Anyway works.
Radagast
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I know it will hurt. Alot of people who have commented in this thread KNOW it will hurt. It will not only hurt, it will ruin it completely. Botting will be the best way to make money. BEST. You can't make even close to the amount you'd make with botting by ''actively'' farming money on 1 character. That's because you will be able to bot with 20 characters at same time. And tbh, best ways to get money on vanilla server, other than buying IMPS and selling to players, will be at monsters where botting is possible. Smugglers, bear cubs, elks. All these are super easy to bot and have best drops for money making even if you do it with your main lv50-60 account. Blurry Blueprints, NSS, Fake Documentations and Old Tickets... Botters will just get enormous amount of money for nothing, while others won't even have a CHANCE to make even close to that amount doing anything else, playing the game, beeing at their comps.
There already is Meteorite and Tree of Fortune for players which want to make profit of AFKing characters.
And they are great compared to botting. Why?
1. They don't even close give an amount of advantage botting will. ( as I stated above, best places to farm money are all bottable).
2. They are very luck related. Like - it will be super nice to get HB out of prosperous packet. However, droprate isn't so good, so it's always a lottery. Same goes with sparkling wishing stones and ref drops. So people who will want to do these things AFKing will be awarded with a chance to win a lottery basically, which is fine and actually something which also gives that nostalgia of old ToP.
Edd1993
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There are so many more good spots to place the bots on, smugglers is just the most puplar one, but it's not even the most efficient, there are even better spots. Nerfing the drop rates of the mobs will affect the people that wanna farm actively too. You could make something like auto attack function to only last a couple mins or so, that would fix it without any consequences, if it's possible ofc.
Edd1993
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Also, if you are talking about nerfing the drops, NSSs are not everything that can be botted, for instance ice creams, there are few good spots in shaitan and ici to farm those, they have 4% drop rate and can be npced for 75k each stack, sure doesn't sounds like a lot but it actually is since you can get quite a lot daily and that's just one example, there are way more stuffs that can be botted. Pet food for example, place an SS in ici at the sailor squids and you no longer need to buy rations ever.
Shinon12345
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I think if the word spreads that botting is a thing on this server many people will not consider playing here just because of this fact.
So I think that in itself is the biggest damage that could possibly happen.
Therefor it is essential to have preventive measurements against botting.
In a post somewhere in this thread someone said that there could be a time limit. When said time limit is reached the character stops his auto skill.
If this would be possible to implement I think we should give it a try. If not, just remove auto skills entirely, either for certain skills (again if possible) or yeah...entirely for all skills as it is not a necessary feature for active gameplay.
I know it might hit some Voyagers that will get less DPS when with auto conching they can reactivate their skill faster, and yeah auto healing in a crowded place is also a nice thing to have, but it's a price that I believe is worth paying in order to achieve and maintain fairness and a stable economy in our upcoming server.
So I think that in itself is the biggest damage that could possibly happen.
Therefor it is essential to have preventive measurements against botting.
In a post somewhere in this thread someone said that there could be a time limit. When said time limit is reached the character stops his auto skill.
If this would be possible to implement I think we should give it a try. If not, just remove auto skills entirely, either for certain skills (again if possible) or yeah...entirely for all skills as it is not a necessary feature for active gameplay.
I know it might hit some Voyagers that will get less DPS when with auto conching they can reactivate their skill faster, and yeah auto healing in a crowded place is also a nice thing to have, but it's a price that I believe is worth paying in order to achieve and maintain fairness and a stable economy in our upcoming server.